###Finished major editing. Not doing any major edits here
Now moved it to my own site to look at it there using the Auto-TOC (automatic table of contents) function which is near essential for long pieces of work like this (for me at least). Reading order of headers and looking at the header index is so much clearer like that so it’s there now. Click to see it now.
My usual ‘Writing Style’ Disclaimer may help those ‘sensitive’ in reading, though I cover it below
This topic is made from my parts previously written elsewhere on the forum. This effort is towards making more of a relevant or complete post in one place.
I suggest you check the header titles first by skipping through the text and see if it interests you. The headers should indicate if it’s a good read or not. A lot is re-written to help give points for your own self-realisations. I think this topic is something you’re sure to come across as the frequently underlying part of any on-line / internet topic debate / lifestyle choice… since it’s all connected (this word in all it’s meanings)…
For my own personal reasons of I’m not currently encouraging chat or reply about it all. Some you know, some you will realise… again it’s to help contribute towards your own missions of realisations and not push anything other than what I see makes perfect sense. Revisions will continue nonetheless to improve points and develop the writing. Anything not clear, will be. I’ve edited it for a long time already and long-term I see a quality and achievement in that.
###Why write such a mass
Part of why I write is the feeling coming from a self-trapped position or position of output which is either undesired (almost involuntary or uncontrollable) or not of percieved quality possible. I’m just doing shit every day basically and that doesn’t validate, in my eyes, usage of some many different kinds of components and energy during existence… Over this perhaps reflects life has become reduced to “1’s or 0’s” which you can assume your’re points about what being a 1 or 0 means and how boring / almost-dead that is.
##Introduction and Definition: Automation
- The act of implementing the control of equipment with advanced technology; usually involving electronic hardware
- The condition of being automatically operated or controlled
- Equipment used to achieve automatic control or operation
Icon / picture inspiration > > !
##How I feel - Confusion…
I think I’m stuck between a personal computer and automation myself in the outside world… not much else to do it may seem directly connected with survival… I became not sure why I’m even writing this other than computers and automation processes taking what people used to do, and make it into something else… the knowing / seeing / feeling that that is NOT right or good for my health and others I see around me complaining in various degrees… even those happy eventually having their days numbered…
##OK confusion OVER.
Now I know why I wrote some of this. Those last few sentences above sum it up. Processes have occupied the work place where human used to find work or had the potential in working in the ‘name of XYZ’ (many things) … or avoided doing it the human way because it would have to be more fair (automation is leverage). And now perhaps on top of that we have adopted
the pre-occupation of focusing only on the numbers, analysing / judging… all by numbers, weighting human consideration, input/output effects all with numbers… no wonder we made so much profit and mess we calculated out the human parts. I am no longer confused and just want to work on bringing equation back to something permanently favourable for us all.
#Reasoning and Points start here
##Inhuman / 'High efficiently’
It’s perhaps got to the stage of achieving extremely high levels of ‘efficiency’ and ‘best way’ practices, to the current less human levels which experience ourselves or are starting to see when being excluded more and more from the process equation. These missing parts are arguably the needed parts we need as humans living our daily lives…
##Moral versus Speed
Computers and automation may help to maintain and balance some things
- too well (over efficiency)
- not well (human design preference or balancing problems).
- morally should not at moderate or control the chains of things.
Appreciating the beauty of life and living it somewhat… rather than maxxing it out
It seems quite logical to look at things in terms of efficiency or numbers and production but the actual appreciating life, living it beautifully I think is somewhat really over-looked.
- How much is the jungle worth? The animals inside it? Why preserve them at all?
Tough questions and can be very opinionated at the start.
##Not in my name… (consent) needing my permission * before *
Doing things for me (including thing done badly) and avoiding me being able to learn about a process is not good for me. I don’t want it. Do I have a choice?
- Machines are the gate keepers that can ignore you or only speak electronically
- humans at least can be asked “why are you here?”… “what’s inside these gates”… “what are people doing in there”… to some degree
- humans are not so remotely deployed or invisible
- human life provides a self-check for non-toxifying the planet (need to take care of the parts of the planet we work)
##A bit like Chess…
This game can be strictly a calculated game when seem from an calculated point of view or as an automated task. I think this is why I mention it because you can play it for fun or you can pre-predict everything and work purely with that.
Playing with or against ant computer = constant DEFEAT… results in GAME OVER… consistently means LOSING from anything other than the starting 10(?) moves. Yeah seems fun at the beginning and even after a few tries, but how boring is it when it’s already calculated and not much else to work with…
Autobot’s transform! Decepticons destroy! (…Transformers cartoon )
Transformers might be the human version of Transhumanism?
Processors far surpass us and after we make them and rely on them we’re somewhat committing to the long-term future. Even if we worked together against them or didn’t want them, I’m not so sure we’d have a choice other than avoidance. It’s just no fun with a computer and hand full of people and some paid minions - the perspective that everything that can be pinned and calculated to the second, is not so consistently human.
If some kind of robot will control it beyond a certain means or detriment then = GAME OVER + less fun / human interaction
##Challenges need to exist
Challenges need to exist within humans to learn and pass on learning curves (not eliminate them).
##I’m in competition with a computer / trying to catch up
To think it’s better for work done by a computer when we start to serve it (rather than serve ourselves) is a probably often overlooked.
If humans are in a constant war / bottleneck (slow part) process and are not comfortable or willing to compete / try to operate at the same pace seems as something automated, is a bit of a diseased/false way of looking at things (it’s faulty, compromised and corrupted going forward).
##‘Best Way’ Mentality
Overall too, thinking about doing things in a way more than what an individual is willing to do seems a bit of a diseased way of looking at things (again a way that doesn’t go forward).
##Question - What has automation brought you?
Any changes for you, making life easier, almost certainly means a taking of other ‘pieces’ elsewhere… and at the end of the day it’s all at the cost of ‘the board’… (which is basically Earth, and humans and their surroundings can be seen as being pawns somewhat
Even more so in real life… where rather than disposable wooden pieces there are millions of people under mass control of some kind, which you might find working opposite to your own efforts if not now then more surely later as time passes. ‘Mass control’ in the same paragraph just means a kind constant ‘check’ move by others to get us to move in the areas, with similar templates, and spending our time or money doing things for them or trying to get out of them… thank you very much!
Well maybe not everyone but you might get what I mean… We’re all busy Well not all of us… time is running either way… and that’s perhaps our biggest asset, to out live it somewhat!
Technology creates a lot of jobs and keeps a lot of people really, really busy…
…all good until ‘busy’ is all we are just fiddling and developing the very same processes that will eventually turn on us (get sold on enough time to the wrong people). Clever hired hands.
##My opinion, ya
It’s perhaps obvious to say I have a bit feeling towards people doing what they 100% know doesn’t do them more good and does others harm but still choose to stay alive seemingly through the same ways knowing there won’t be any change or initiating any themselves. Perhaps I should talk my own experiences, of which I was definitely chicken to speak up more than I did.
Perpetuation of such unwanted things - every day - undermined by this decision and overall thought to just stay alive - perhaps a terrible reason for staying in a job (or even alive).
Less blame, maybe some shame
Hooking processes such as a job to our lives, making it hard to express an existence neutrally / without the job has a huge impact on friends and family. A modern twist of “Money or your life + you families life etc”. Eh it’s not that bad perhaps you can always for back on the doll.
Selling / Renting the Earth - Prostitution / Prostitutes.
I feel like the Earth is being sold on / rented and that I’m expected to rent myself too. Urggh, I feel ill.
Even with a condom on and any other protective gear given to me, I still feel like I’m being shafted.
###Automation taking over…
Automation is already here and catching up with whatever it can we have a bright idea to make more ‘efficient’… setting systems that are hard to get out of and socially pressuring frameworks… name… number… Play with others or risk it alone and see how long you last. Or maybe many haven’t experienced enough of that yet or never decided to go it alone. You or I could also develop something that goes in the hands of those with other intentions. Do nothing and die out… ok a bit bleak…
##BOMB IT TO PIECES
What’s the first thing that has lots of investment and biggest interest for countries.
Military or similar… that’s where the big boys play and really step things up in all areas
It’s basically always going to be vs. … vs.
A big industry. Oh well. Another game over if you try and negotiate with it directly - yes they will come for you too! Great hunters… just a sniff and they can snipe, snare, snip, snarl, snag, snap, snarf, snatch, sneer, snick, snooker, snook, snoop, snitch, snow-blow, snub, snuff-out… you get the picture.
##Human Redundancy, Tech Redundancy, Obsolete processes.
‘Jobs’ and out-dating processes are definitely known somewhat - if we know and can make films then others know - I think it’s ignored, some catching up. I think we’ll all wait to get laid off before we do something big or be ready… I think I’m self-retired though I still have a few years left…
Automation has already got us somewhat.
##Computers. Enjoy your machine as it’s developers enjoy you
Business ethics + technology. A new type of Chess (developed by them… business groups)
I’m sure some planned. Take the data / profits, move on. Standard programming behaviour
##Leaders / supervisors / workers are the control points for more division-type processes / programming.
it’s connected with how our societal and economic systems work. Also, it’s hard envisioning a realistic alternative in which things turned out to be anything close to really better on a fundamental level, without accepting first to accept simplicity for the children and then if opinions of what’s better. Staying alive in my view with limited option isn’t great.
##Jobs / activities
A ‘job’ sounds good as long as we’re not just fiddling (speaking on behalf of myself) and those processes / automations we not just get scooped up in the hands of those in touch with the masses first with the control to command.
##Digital Disclaimer! A lot starts good but rambles and consumes more then you’re ever likely to get back or enjoy…
I think the cost is something more than we might ever know or expect… this is half the problem if not more, we simply don’t know… and / or don’t want to spend the time calculating or making the checkpoints as that might kill the fun and reveal the truth too much…
To have the actual cost factors & numbers… would be a huge start to align everything else we base on money and really do the math…
Digitally it seems abundant but only perhaps because it’s upheld by a huge infrastructure (The stock of basic facilities and capital equipment needed for the functioning of a country or area).
Prior to anything existing or digital content available or copied, the many investment companies had to pump lots of money and find a way to get paid back also (I could be wrong about this and people are like Tesla merely creating without looking for payback)
Every second (tick tock) we are paying in many ways (ISPs, hardware, precious metals, factories blah, blah) and paying off something made in ways we can consider COSTLY… very!
So we might think it not a lot of cost now (and definitely as humans we can decide anything can become cheap instantly) but it is quite a lot and we’ve missed it due to distributed costs (or what’s that word of making things cheap in chain?)
It’s costing all of us in a distributed way which = £/$millions per second…just going round being spent? Perhaps someone can get it cheap but it’s not going to be at the end of the pipe, more like at the very beginning of the pyramid. Splitting things to get more focus paybacks.
###Challenge / test
A nice flowchart or diagram is welcome to show me the moves how we become on top of things.
##The solution: If only…
- we could decide why we’re doing all this and if the cost makes sense to stay on-line and convince those that have more power to give it up and risk us having the possibility of it instead!.. of course we’ll involve them in the process and say NO!
- And if only everything wasn’t made for profit (undoing some of the good) because with that built-in we definitely will or are finding it hard/impossible to un-do that first foundation when when building on top of it trying to fix / do things that it simply can’t. The foundations are compromised as far as I see it, and just in physical break at some level of change either direction.
List of all components / stuff / shit - abundance of another kind!
- heaps of machines, power units, cables, the redundancy, the heat, plastics, back ache, out-of-date-style-of-‘new’ (ok just look around your office or where ever you are - I’m going to save writing the whole parts list for computers, printers, networks or whatever)… so there’s lots…
- how did all this get made…?
- how many factories?
- distribution lines? ships, trucks and trailer haulage,
- Buildings, land, patents, Antennas, wires dug in the road, crossing
- power lines and cables above, power packs, (ok you get the point). Most of this ‘stuff’ is made abroad / off-shore / out-sourced so it’s not consuming / ruining anything I can see here perhaps.
People (or individuals somewhere else) are mining all this stuff, working in factories and I’m sure those things aren’t all great for them. Just plastic factories, PCB robots, metal presses etc… Hope they have the more expensive type of masks… nuclear power plants… it’s like a Command and Conquer game - how else are you going to grow your people / army? No grow is perhaps better to see where we are.
##DIGITAL consumes ENERGY (also DOESN’T COMPOST WELL) !
Ultimately all this digital stuff burns energy and unless we’re using it for good, for example making everything free all the time, then we’re still hooked on money for it’s supply and critically we’re still connected to most business groups who have to make all this ‘stuff’.
They (or groups of us well paid) are almost always better than us for making things worse / taking more than giving… Also when you throw it away it damages the earth or litters it (or Africa or wherever it’s dumped labelled as donation / charity goods)… all this might be far reaching but simple values seem lost if you consider your hard disk failing and loosing all those hours or throwing away of such abundant things for them simply never to compost well like nature (which grows more nature)… but take up a lot of space before, during after usage to what effectiveness? answer on a postcard. Plastics don’t compost, shame that… And now it’s in the sea, I don’t blame the companies for pumping it there, what else to do?… (this link is a small review / media link to it, really good)
This post is a bit more say and spray so forgive that and see the main points of each bit. The above link I wouldn’t mention if I didn’t feel bird and sea life eating our plastics (shredded and un-shredded plastics) is a really good example of more things to come - really good example of the really bad. Bd bad bAd bad.
##Imagine we’re already there
I think digitally we have all we want / legally or not . but we don’t know what to do with it… yeah definitely takes time all this to figure it out, but ultimately I think we have to accept the equation that someone else made all this and it’s their system, not ours, and it needs us to keep using it. Can’t beat it, and so big wins for them even in us trying in this way on a ‘computer’. “Yeah buy more and use it against them!” - Ziggy my computer tells me I’m losing at a rate unsustainable each day… but the expression feels good at least.
##Can we measure it? Isn’t that one of the biggest problems if not?
anyone want to try and make a basic sketch of how using even 1 computer to do all this helps or uses energy?
I like flowcharts or something clear like a diagram that demonstrates things, a basic form of simulation logic… so if I could choose something nice like that even in a general sense (because you can always look at it in more detail later or make a mini-flow chart from any general blocks)…
flow chart software… that’s an idea… my laptop takes X amount per hour + cost this much and lasted 10years… I’ve used it xxxxxx hours and achieved Y… quite hard yes. I know time has been consumed and that’s a bunch of energy and I’m not pessimistic at all about the time I used… perhaps a bit more ‘wary’ let’s say now… coming into the early hours of the morning…
Converting things into digital (needs trees probably in the first place) means we can then have something in digital which I guess we’d eventually want to convert back efficiently in to real life again which might fail to keep our bodies alive… the laptop power pack isn’t going to keep us warm enough or fed and we better sort out all the duplicate copies stored everywhere too!
##We like soduku / eye-candy
All this digital abundance, seems a bit like soduku eye-candy - a constant moving of the same puzzle pieces, no disrespect. I know also we don’t have another way so much… and this has a few benefits in trying at least (keeping sane is also another benefit perhaps) but who produces these medium, metals, cables and what cost to the whole infrastructure (or other countries we ship the containers to) I think all is clearly a massive and increasing cost (and a mess frankly) BUT most importantly it’s not in our hands. We just gotta stop buying the crap!
Do we have much choice but to minimise that and plan our exit / way out? Should we constantly sleep with the same people we don’t like and then think we can avoid sleeping with them? Is this title like an old batman quote by the narrator at the end? Tune in next time for ‘save the world’ part 55500303 (I wrote this like some kind of title to encourage a bit of “…to be continued” type of thing.)
##we can’t make - oh wait maybe raspberry Pi we can…
ok sorry this part goes back to what we can’t
- the hardware and software changes - business has big control on (we can’t make the hardware on such scales and the changes make us always catch up and we can’t afford the constant time lost perhaps). Can we make a raspberry Pi from picking raspberries or mining some metal from, err that place around the corner ?
- the legislation, distribution or law to ‘know your customer’ and similar things, things that connect more to other things might just turn around and be used by businesses (as always?)
- fairness… we can’t make fairness using unfair things… can’t we?
Overall we’re all competing by using money, it put us there and also we can’t leave each other alone considering money only comes from 1 or 2 sources and total debt = > total available - what a position for the little one’s to start not knowing about until there are double digits beings only to go to university and party for a bit and realise… oh shit…
Things that are just as bad as good ultimately don’t escape the top level of ‘bad’…
We might just have to leave what is tempting alone for these reasons - did you mum & dad ever tell you you played too much on your computers ? Well that might be continuing even as we speak… Fun isn’t it… I’d like to hear some thoughts on how all our plugged in plugs, costly electricity (sorry Tesla) and heavy hardware (or even light precious metals and toxic plastics) are going to win it for us.
No such thing as digital zero marginal cost economy… what do you think?
I’m writing a little quickly as my eyes are almost burning! Yes not joking, yet another limitation of the digital abundance, retinal limits… perhaps less is more for this poor organ being over-worked more than ever on a regular and daily basis at work and then at home… [insert ‘poor eye’ pic here]
For me most of this sounds like trying well in some way but still ends up being the answer of getting away from consumptive systems, eventually connected to monetary systems and without completely agreeing to work together it’s more energy that not really organised and just one side trying to convince the other whilst one needs them more and shafting them better.
We might have to use what got and call it a day if it doesn’t work… processors and other parts are all up to a great speed - what we gonna do with it! Not sure we’re ready for more production of it, more stepping (2Ghz, 2.2ghz, 2.45Ghz… 3Ghz… oh look 3.3Ghz… 3.8Ghz… ok now RAM 25mhz… 50mhz… oh look it’s 100mhz, 400 DDR DADA, 500 DAD…) all this stuff and the evolution of it by business first and then us… or them simply them being us (but changing our individual badges to one’s hired by them) so shooting ourselve in the foot!. What company do you work for…? Is it doing more good or bad?
How many programmers, how many designers… all under the banner of business and doing things that way… How am I or we going to compete with that? In a sentence please other than believe it’s possible more than kamakaze or something…
I think that’s already very possible and scalable, even in an infantile way. Pay a few people and they’ll train it up nicely so it still needs a little help… but does more damaged, I mean extracts more… sorry I mean does more good business.
One can be less easier to cheat than the other, but things are still hard to cheat or they just become deliberately allowable backdoors (part of business ‘family’s’ or ‘groups’).
Reminded me about one of your comments about duplicate posts or split posts that can help increase stats (and maybe reputation) in some way and that discourse not affected by that - pretty amazing software.
People love numbers and maybe getting away from that helps in some way allow other things come into focus, if not being more at rest with one’s self with the knowing that complex numbers or computers never truly represent us the people individually. And unless it’s instant and want to tag everyone then people and their minds changing are going to skew things.
Maybe a type of trust, not to mess with some things and also make the right decision off-line too from solid principles will keep us on a good course for everyone. I trust on-line = mostly entertainment for the masses
I do write differently to the average bear (or more accurately to some of those who have replied to me in the forum who complained somewhat ). So my about page may show I’m sincere if it’s not assumed already and just am this way).
This topic title is also used as a preliminary. It also serves to demonstrate a hazard in topic making since the words ‘ethical’ and not ‘ethical’ can be opinions or relating to a different sub-set of things including principles of preferences in different sorts of priorities which have their own ordering (further sub-set combinations). This is A REAL CAN OF WORMS … which may excite the mind but perhaps after initial impulse needs adjusting for further objectives… so I’m considering other words, and welcome replacements for now with the above said things in mind…
##Reducing general comments / focussing somewhat… Something less opinionated / more practical…
Please PM any temptations of a reply to maintain clarity and minimal chat (I’m not too interested to be honest) - also avoids fragmented discussion on this page.
I think I can achieve this with two further headers, the feeling and the practicalities / facts:
###My general feeling towards clarity:
- Ethical / unethical in my own view is when something is or is not done without my approval. I find that’s enough to cross boundaries… and can be anything!.. even to the level of building the very technological infrastructure I use without asking me if the forest should be cut for another power station… is something I’d say flat NO to even if it meant half the week without computer… Try me! Forest being carved up so I can jerk off hmmm…
- I realise unavoidable things like people being born before me or having good reasons can make the above point seeming like I’m some God-like person people need to ask everything first, but I’d still prefer more asking then what it is now… I can see how many thing it would ‘help us’ get ahead in some sense to use technology (hard to group it all), but for actual benefits, we could have waited a while and got the knowledge anyway some other way without burning /building our environment into what it is. Or perhaps not. This paragraph acknowledges all those before me and hope we can get ahead and win this somewhat unclear game we’re in. No-one likes when something fun got too fast for them and can’t quite playing (tread-mill).
So towards a title analysis here is my breakdown for you to chew on further.
###My opinions of facts / practicalities towards clarity:
###Technology (I advise skipping the 2nd level of bullet indents on first read)
- is too easy to use and too easy incorrectly used / messes other things
- a user is also potential abuser of varying scope of responsibility (not all fall on one person or place).
- training isn’t really given on how to use the net so not surprised generations completely missed technology traps like slow-release / stepping of hardware and versions… (perhaps even you reading right now are amongst all this doing it every day seeking for a way out constant reinstalling OS’s / apps, tweaking, constant tech changing, playing… overall (if I could talk on my behalf and some others) what we might deep down want to escape being, merely a slave to the machine somewhat unless a revolution suddenly happens without them…
- Terms and conditions not explained to people in real life. Not enough care to prove terms have been read. Allowing self-exploitation and arguably at other people’s cost in the system. Other people’s tracked data eventually gets back to me for example. Grrr.
- Technology is another barrier or filter or can be even more of one between all of us
- (lack of emotions etc list here)
- other forms of misunderstanding …which admittedly can also happen in real life
- Technology is inhuman (or much less human)…
- so never going to up our skill in real life to the same level or same way.
- is not transparent
- relies on a huge business infrastructure (most of which we are fighting against on many levels
- so how will that ever win that, raspberry pi soldiering our own parts & boards?
- huge power consumption, device manufacture plants, multiple duplicate product outputs / planned obsolescence is the least of the problems
##Useful Links(?) Section
Twitter TV Rating, Everybody Wins – Except Twitter Users
Dec 17th, 2012 | By James Lewin | Category: Citizen Media
IF a level of inhuman management proportions is found using technology (considering too that’s just one extension of life) then maybe it’s foreseeable that only the human factors come in to play thereafter that’s sorted or regressed back to the level of basic / simply minimal technology which I’m not suggesting would be better, but only would allow us to focus on the human things and not try going off on this tangent only to face the above facts, some of which I see as immovable.