Physical aggression is bad because it scares people, it makes them feel nervous / unhappy. Words and ideas should not do this. The problem some people have is that words and ideas can scare them. The brain gets the two kinds of ‘attack’ mixed up / confused. It’s easy to fix. Once you understand that words and ideas can’t hurt you. I started to learn this as a kid when my dad told me: ‘Sticks and stones can break your bones, but words can never hurt you’ and ‘water off a duck’s back’
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fighting/sparring with words can also be good to train logic/critical-thinking skills. But of course it has to be focused on getting at the truth, and not ‘winning’. (there was an article about this recently, i forget where).
Socrates was a troll.
Very true, but I think that we should strive to regulate this fighting/sparring better, so that it doesn’t create a permanent atmosphere of unforgiving tension and hostility. People don’t like to feel like they are tested to their limits all the time. We need something like a Dojo, or some kind of event or ritual that creates a dedicated space for this kind of sparring. The rest of our community space should be kept friendly.
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Tim Cannon> Peter H. Meadows I am guessing you are unfamiliar with my work. I am a grinder biohacker that currently runs a group of people that quit talking about bullshit in cloistered communities and put our hands to work. I have since built circuits on hacker budgets that I have implanted into my own body. I am fucking working toward the future bro. Peter Rothman is known to be a total fucking douche bag so I am not surprised he acted like that. Ask Rich Lee about him.
elo [10:26 PM]
@neuroneater: you suck at community.
[10:27]
but I probably don’t need to tell you that.
neuroneater [10:27 PM]
@elo: Why do you think so, and how do you think I can improve?
elo [10:27 PM]
I think you came across as abrasive
neuroneater [10:27 PM]
For example?
elo [10:28 PM]
sure; one sec.
neuroneater [10:28 PM]
[10:28]
BTW, do you know anything about the ‘Mistake Not…’?
elo [10:29 PM]
nope? what’s that?
neuroneater [10:30 PM]
A Culture ship/mind. Relevant, but I can’t tell you if you haven’t read all Iain M. Banks, cos the explanation will contain spoilers. (edited)
elo [10:38 PM]
Tell us more about yourself
dangrsmind: Let’s see…no.
people are allowed to say no without being accused of things:
awwww. Don’t be BORING!
then later
If you know somewhere more worth your time, go play with them.
“play” implies something he might consider worthy is what you would consider “play”, I suspect you didn’t realise you did it but that’s pretty insulting.
I think this:
Sad that this is the transhumanism slack. What a waste.
was a warning bell that he wasn’t just messing around with you and your witty banter; but was actually annoyed by what you were saying.
He is right about this:
False. Whomever controls the group owns it. You are boring and also a liar,
in the sense that ban powers; and the responsibility to keep it:
- alive and
- on topic and
- interesting
falls to whomever owns it.
when he asked:
Why did you add me to this group?
and you replied:
@dangrsmind: I didn’t add you. Our A.I did. Ask it. Hit it with a stick if it makes you feel better.
that was pretty unhelpful…
[10:38]
A Culture ship/mind.
no idea. sorry
neuroneater [10:39 PM]
people are allowed to say no without being accused of things:
Accused of what? (edited)
elo [10:40 PM]
being boring; being unwilling to participate; being the “obtuse” one; being the non-conforming one
neuroneater [10:41 PM]
I suspect you didn’t realise you did it but that’s pretty insulting.
If he found that word confusing, he should have asked me to explain what I meant, instead of jumping to false conclusions.
elo [10:41 PM]
he might be unwilling to participate in that way; but you could get him to participate another way; ask him what parts of transhumanism he is interested in. without the accusation
neuroneater [10:41 PM]
I’m allowed to accuse people of being boring, if I think that they’re being boring. Obviously it’s subjective.
[10:42]
He called me boring, many times, really I was just turning his own words against him.
[10:42]
So you can’t actually feel sorry for him, can you?
elo [10:43 PM]
he should have asked me to explain what I meant
no. the responsibility to be clear in communication falls to both sides.
I’m allowed to accuse people of being boring
no. you are allowed to believe people are boring; you can accuse them; but you can’t in good confidence expect them to be charitable and interactive if you do.
neuroneater [10:43 PM]
was a warning bell that he wasn’t just messing around with you and your witty banter; but was actually annoyed by what you were saying.
So what? It’s not my responsibility to baby sit people.
[10:43]
We’re not children. If you’re annoyed, calm down and meditate
[10:43]
Don’t blame me for your anger.
elo [10:44 PM]
he was mostly trying to work out who invited him; and what this place is - and you did a failure of helping him find that.
[10:44]
It’s not my responsibility to baby sit people.
it is your responsibility to respond in a positive way if you expect people to want to stick around.
neuroneater [10:45 PM]
in the sense that ban powers; and the responsibility to keep it:
This is not actually true. I think you might not get how anarchy / consensus and social reputation works.
elo [10:46 PM]
so yes. it is your responsibility
no you can’t accuse people and expect them to stick around.
and it is your responsibility to communicate clearly instead of expecting people to ask you to clarify on any occasion they find you unclear; in fact - he did find you clearly obtuse.
neuroneater [10:46 PM]
Why did you add me to this group?
My first reply was: ‘Was it a mistake? Do you want to be removed?’ If he’s said ‘yes’, it would have been the end of the story, he could wake up in his bed and believe whatever he wanted to believe. (edited)
elo [10:47 PM]
- alive and
- on topic and
- interesting
yes. no one else has an invested responsibility in 1,2 & 3
[10:48]
no your first reply was
angrsmind: I didn’t add you. Our A.I did. Ask it. Hit it with a stick if it makes you feel better.
neuroneater [10:48 PM]
yes. no one else has an invested responsibility in 1,2 & 3
completely inaccurate.
elo [10:48 PM]
actually your first reply was:
To harness you
and make junk
neuroneater [10:49 PM]
No. That was not my first reply. My first replay to him was in the #zerostate chan at [3:59 PM] on saturday. Go check it.
deku-shrub [10:49 PM]
RIP @neuroneater
elo [10:49 PM]
I believe you.
neuroneater [10:49 PM]
@deku-shrub: Are you making death threats?
deku-shrub [10:49 PM]
May you die of old age!
elo [10:50 PM]
neuroneater [2:59 AM]
Was it a mistake? Do you want to be removed?
dangrsmind [3:02 AM]
It was absolutely a mistake. You
[10:50]
you saying he didn’t take issue with being added. he did. right there.
neuroneater [10:51 PM]
Old ageing is a disease, as transhumanists, we are trying to cure it, so ’ May you die of old age!’ to a transhuman is actually rather grave.
[10:54]
no you can’t accuse people and expect them to stick around.
I can accuse people of being boring if I think that they’re boring. And I didn’t expect him to stick around. He was a troll.
[10:56]
and it is your responsibility to communicate clearly instead of expecting people to ask you to clarify on any occasion they find you unclear; in fact - he did find you clearly obtuse.
I completely disagree with this. If you don’t understand me, it’s your responsibility to ask for clarification. I’m not going to dumb down my language skills just in case someone misunderstands me. That would be very insulating to all the people that do understand me.
elo [10:59 PM]
he was less troll than you.
neuroneater [10:59 PM]
he was mostly trying to work out who invited him; and what this place is - and you did a failure of helping him find that.
He wasn’t. You can see from the the very start that his intention was to troll and get a rise.
elo [11:01 PM]
I didn’t expect him to stick around.
you could have helped him leave sooner.
neuroneater [11:02 PM]
I deemed it not in our best interests for him to leave.
[11:03]
Someone else could have helped him leave sooner, if that’s what they thought was a good idea. do-ocracy
elo [11:03 PM]
then you could have encouraged him to have reason to stay
neuroneater [11:03 PM]
I did.
elo [11:03 PM]
lol
neuroneater [11:03 PM]
stares blankly
neuroneater [11:04 PM]
I told him he was invited by an A.I, to a real transhumanist, how exciting is that!?
elo [11:04 PM]
Too unlikely
neuroneater [11:04 PM]
It’s true.
[11:05]
I mean… it’s probably not ‘sentient’… but it was a bot that went rouge
elo [11:05 PM]
it turned a reddish shade?
neuroneater [11:05 PM]
hehe
[11:06]
It just got over excited, I guess
[11:06]
I think I’ve fixed it.
elo [11:06 PM]
so I assume that at this point; since you are the most active person here; you are the owner
neuroneater [11:06 PM]
nope.
[11:06]
I don’t own anything.
[11:06]
And I have my masters
elo [11:07 PM]
Who has admin powers here?
neuroneater [11:07 PM]
Pretty much everybody :simple_smile: but @peterxing is root
[11:07]
the admin powers were handed out by Peter’s bot that also went rouge
[11:08]
nothing to do with me!
elo [11:08 PM]
code rouge. code rouge. bot is out of the box.
neuroneater [11:08 PM]
[11:09]
We are the real deal.
[11:12]
and @dangrsmind will be back when he realises that. IF he wants to do cool transhuman stuff.
elo [11:12 PM]
lol
neuroneater [11:12 PM]
Otherwise he can retire to some lame facebook group, and wait for us to get the singularity going.
elo [11:13 PM]
he was already a magazine writer
[11:13]
there’s a fb group?
neuroneater [11:13 PM]
I know who he is.
[11:13]
http://hpluspedia.org/wiki/List_of_Facebook_groups
[11:14]
I don’t know which one is his. Ask @dw2
[11:14]
I don’t care. they’re all lame.
[11:14]
If you think being in a facebook group makes you a transhumanist …
[11:15]
Or editing H+ makes you a transhumanist… well…
[11:15]
it doesn’t
elo [11:15 PM]
no true scottsman?
neuroneater [11:15 PM]
You’re transhuman if you behave like a transhuman. He didn’t
elo [11:16 PM]
your list is missing at least one facebook group
neuroneater [11:16 PM]
It’s a wiki.
elo [11:16 PM]
and
neuroneater [11:16 PM]
And it’s not ‘my’ list.
[11:17]
and @deku-shrub and @dw2 would probably appreciate it if you help make h+pedia more complete
[11:17]
Personally I’d rather you work for/with me.
elo [1:51 AM]
’/kick @neuroneater … apparently I don’t have that power.
neuroneater [1:52 AM]
With great power, comes great responsibility
[1:52]
kicking is for violent dumdum animals. Real transhumans wouldn’t dream of it. (edited)
[1:53]
Real transhumans are chill, they use words and ideas, not force.
[1:58]
Plus ratio quam vis
No. We should do it all the time. The fault is with people who get upset when you show them why they are wrong. (of course you’re allowed to say ‘im meditating, i dont want to argue now’)
(also compare to physical muscles. We encourage humans to walk around, and keep healthy. If people only exercise in the gym we’d end up like the fatsos in wall-e)
1 Like