What is the perfect future?

[Radivis (Michael Hrenka)]

Welcome to the Fractal Future Forum, Matt. Don’t worry, your post fits pretty well into the style of this forum. And it seems that you have hit pretty much the core of the purpose of this forum with your first post. There’s certainly a lack of compelling, visceral, and realistic positive visions for the future. Ideas about what a great future might look like diverge quite a bit. The utopia of some is the nightmare of others, and vice versa.

@Matt_Stanton

I have no idea what I would want the future to look like if it were perfect.

I totally get that. I have struggled with this question for many years, too, and still revisit my future visions again and again. Reaching a definite answer seems to be quite unlikely, but collecting many different ideas will certainly expand our horizons.

@Matt_Stanton

I’m talking about pure optimization of the Universe.

Ok, but the underlying question is: Optimization for what?

@Matt_Stanton

I would assume conscious experience to be the pinnacle, but given that I know so little about the brain and about it would be like to be an artificial mind, is there something more profound than consciousness?

Wow, that’s a rather dizzying question. Shouldn’t everything of value require some kind of conscious being who values it? If so, then conscious experience would be a definite requirement for any kind of value at all. Or can value really exist in some kind of vacuum, without any subject it needs to relate to? What would that even mean?

And what does it mean for something to be “more profound” than consciousness? What could be imagined are enhanced states of consciousness, like the ones you mentioned. Would that justify ascribing a completely new name to this enhanced consciousness? I don’t think so. It would merely be “consciousness+” (as in “consciousness with some extras”), but still be consciousness by its nature.

@Matt_Stanton

My limited scope can only suggest heightened senses and ecstatic feelings of joy and bliss, but does that mean a dark room alone feeling really happy? Living multiple lifetimes over and over again in the most adventurous worlds possible, falling in love over and over again? Living multiple lives at the same time?

That doesn’t sound too bad for a start. Apart from existence and happiness, I think there are good reasons also to value (something like) knowledge, wisdom, freedom, diversity, and complexity very highly. Experiencing an artificial sense of joy and bliss all the time doesn’t sound like it would be the most complex experience imaginable. Interacting with others would certainly increase the involved amount of knowledge, diversity, and complexity. But then, eventually it might become difficult to make a clear distinction between “you” and “others” in a maximally advanced civilisation. If I had to compress the purpose of activity in such a civilisation to a short phrase, I would probably choose something like “Exploring the complexity of all kinds of combinations.”

@Matt_Stanton

For the record, I’ve assumed you’re all aware of the impending Singularity and the possibility that we might be able to live this “perfect eternity” as posthumans in a computer simulation.

That’s a fair assumption for this forum. The majority of users should be quite familiar with the concept of the technological Singularity.

@Matt_Stanton

But if you think that doesn’t sound perfect, let me know – I’m curious.

Some people would object to the idea of being “simplified” to computer simulations. But even for most of those the idea of ultra-realistic virtual worlds wouldn’t be objectionable, if you were always free to leave them at will.

@Matt_Stanton

I’m half expecting some seriously tech-y jargon to spew out from the shadows in response to this post

You mean something like the following?

• Superintelligence
• Dyson swarms
• Black hole computation
• Megastructures
• Paradise engineering
• Quantum archeology
• Substrate independent minds
• Many world theory
• Simulation hypothesis
• Alcubierre drive

I mean, sure, we could discuss those, if you like, but your initial post points to a discussion of more fundamental issues like what we would even consider to be “valuable” or “perfect”. Is that something like “I’ll recognize it, when I see it”? Or do we need an elaborate discourse on epistemology and axiology? The following thread would certainly belong to the latter category:

https://transforum.fractalfuture.net/t/epistemological-consequentialism/791

Based on those considerations, I’ve started thinking about a kind of general outline for a kind of a perfect future in

https://transforum.fractalfuture.net/t/civilization-system-w/1346

Around those ideas, I’ve recently started spinning a kind of science fiction scenario:

https://transforum.fractalfuture.net/t/system-w-science-fiction-scenario-universally-advanced/1357

That last thread is probably my best current shot at answering the question about the “perfect future”. I’m currently in the process of writing my first short story within that scenario. It may still take a couple of weeks (or even longer) until it’s finished.

Anyway, thanks for starting this fascinating conversation. I’m very interested in the thoughts of others on this topic. Let me notify some thoughtful visionaries: @AlonzoTG @Amon_Twyman @Darklight @dirk.bruere @Eric_Hunting @FourFire @guillefix @isenhand @Joao_Luz @mam @Maximo_Ramallo @MvB @Peter_Xing @zanthia @ZeUs