I would like to add, that as one of the potential new users specifically invited by PHM from Kanzure’s IRC hideout, I was positively surprised by such an invitation and then nearly immediately disappointed by the behavior of PHM.
I spent a significant amount of time, mental and emotional energy attempting first to give constructive criticism, and then actively trying to fix something which seemed blatantly wrong with the social dynamic.
In short I feel cheated, by you.
However, in context, now that this has been revealed, willing to forgive.
Just one thing seems entirely unclear to me; What is the role of “Z” in all of this?
Thank you for sharing how you feel about this. And thank you very much for forgiving me nevertheless. I’m not even sure I deserve such forgiveness, so I am the more grateful for receiving it.
Z plays the role of a challenging philosopher and a psychological counsellor. @zanthia was not involved directly in the Moriarty Experiment. I and Moriarty alone are wholly responsible.
Willingly inviting a troll usually earns life-long ban - owners of forums can’t be expelled by definition, so you’re safe I guess Lesson to learn here is “do not do this”. I managed few mailing lists and forums and generally, if you see a troll, kick it out. They are always counterproductive an even if used for seemingly rational purposes they… don’t work.
I also wonder (this isn’t in any way connected to the person in question, it’s “note on a margin” if you will) if there is one word name for something that stays the same through any attempt of metasizing its meaning? I mean, name “notatroll” so obviously signifies a troll that even trying to give some benefit of doubt like for example thinking “the name is so obviously trollish that maybe the person is really not a troll”… even that results in “nah, it really is a troll”.
I remember seeing him for the first time with the account notatroll discussing something with you in the shoutbox. I joined the discussion trying to make some sense of it, but it didn’t seem to ultimately lead to anything. I remember being a little puzzled about him. The first impression didn’t strike me as someone I’d have expected to see here. Although, as usual for me, I found myself intrigued precisely because I couldn’t understand the way he thinks.
You two felt a little like two old friends talking to each other. I remember feeling slightly puzzled about that. I had some kind of nagging feeling that there’s something a little strange about you spending time with him. My interest in him died relatively quickly though, since I didn’t quite manage to get him to talk about anything that’d have interested me. He didn’t say anything that’d have given me much of a glimpse into his thought patterns.
Then the first time I encountered him as moriarty… well, it was a major WTF moment. The first message I saw was the “Open letter to Eliezer Yodkowsky” thread. I didn’t realize it was the same person until a couple of days ago. I tried interacting with him a little but the result was pretty much the same. I never felt like I really managed to actually communicate with him, so I ended up not talking to him too much.
My personal feeling about this is that I learned something, so I’m fine with what happened. At least if you don’t make it a habit I’d probably be fine even if you did, but this forum would probably end up dying.
I feel the need to specify what I meant with PHM leaving Fractal Future. It includes:
That PHM needs to stop creating threads or replies in the Fractal Future Forum
that includes private messages and the shoutbox
PHM is will also be required to leave and cease to rejoin Fractal Future associated chat rooms like the #fractalfuture IRC Chat room on the Freenode network
Finally, PHM is discouraged from contacting Fractal Future members, unless they seek out that kind of contact on their own
Failure to follow those points indicate that PHM is not taking his promise to leave Fractal Future after my request seriously.
There is a larger issue than the contretemps in F3 that is revealed by your interactions with Moriarty, Radvis.
In my own internet forum experiences, I also have spent significant periods interacting with brilliant, seemingly sincere individuals with histories of bad outcome.
The one factor that has been consistent is the relative position of these individuals on the autism spectrum.
This leads me to think that it is not bad intent on either side, but rather a failure in communication equipment or protocol.
This notion is my own, unsupported by research as far as am aware, so I only bring it up as a thought, not as a given.
That said, all those instances ended just as this one did for F3.
I could, but such administrative actions often create further fallout, and are therefore relatively problematic. Furthermore, Moriarty has a long history of subverting administrative actions against him, which makes him a real pain in the ass to deal with, even if you have all the administrative power in the world. It’s easy to imagine that banning a person like PHM would end this drama quickly and effectively, but such conflicts with obnoxious and persistent trolls tend not to end very quickly.
Instead, the goal is to get completely rid of PHM’s negative influence as effectively as possible. For that it is necessary to build up an incredibly negative reputation for him, which will stop him from being seen as welcome in any similar community ever again. By letting him continue to be active in his forum, I let him dig his own grave. Effectively, that’s what he chose to do, considering how he’s behaved in the “Should I leave f3?” thread. If he had some real decency, he would have left immediately after I asked him to. So, by not leaving he is proving that he doesn’t have any real decency, which makes clear to everyone that his removal from Fractal Future is fully justified without doubt. If doubts about his character remained, he would use them to disrupt the community even after a formal ban.
I agree with that notion. When it comes to PHM, I think that he suffers from some critical weaknesses which explain why he feels compelled to behave as he does, even though it makes his destructive and doesn’t further his goals one bit. The reason why he goes on like this is that he’s completely deluded about his own capabilities and about what others think about him. His delusions are so powerful that they stop him from questioning his strategy, and evaluating his own effectiveness realistically. To his detriment, and those who interact with him, his weak character prevents him from realizing his delusions as that what they are. If he ever realized his faults, this would come as a massive psychological shock to him, which he is neither willing nor able to handle – and that’s why his own psyche blocks him from facing the truth.
What makes PHM so interesting and even enigmatic is the degree of his psychological / neurological pathology. He’s broken in a very fascinating way. Some of the time he seems to be close to full functionality, but then he will inevitably make stupid mistakes and devastate the impression that he has solid potential. It’s really sad that he’s broken like that, but we can’t easily change that fact. The damage lies too deep. Trying to “fix” him is a waste of time. We simply don’t have the power, resources, or technology for that.
If you want to do a good analysis, then find out how he communicates with people 1 on 1. That is most enlightening. But that also means that it’s not easy to point to the best material for analysis, because it’s private conversations, which obvious complications for shareability.
The point is that PHM pulls people into abrasive private conversations, in which he does most of the harm. Publicly he may behave badly, but it’s his private communications that really erode the nerves of people. It’s so bad that I have to warn everyone not to communicate with him.
this goes a little bit too far, don´t you think? we are all adults that could take care of ourselves and we should be able to decide for our own. and now that he is gone we should turn to normal and not overstep the mark and engange in defamation. the purpose of the recent development was to save the atmosphere of f3 so i don´t think it would be wise to poisen the atmosphere with gossip about somebody who could not defend himself anymore.
Lesson to learn here is “do not do this”. I managed few mailing lists and forums and generally, if you see a troll, kick it out. They are always counterproductive an even if used for seemingly rational purposes they… don’t work.
I’d probably be fine even if you did, but this forum would probably end up dying.
